doing it again

DOING IT AGAIN
tomorrow will be round 2 of 3 rounds of testing that
i have for the alzheimers disease neuroimaging initiative
i have to travel to dallas to have two more tests done
tomorrow
and of course i get to stop at the czech stop and bakery in
west
that town that most americans now know where its located
for the wrong reason
the explosion that killed all those people and injured over a
hundred people

i wont get my kolache tomorrow morning as i have to be fasting for
one of my tests
but
on the way back home to the country n ill be able to stop
and get an afternoon snack of that blueberry cream cheese
kolache
so it wont be too bad and the trip will be worth it then




the first test i have done is the mri scan of the brain
in the study they are interested in the underneath surface
of the brain where memory is located as thats where
alzheimers disease starts at before it takes off to the
rest of the brain later on in the disease process

they can measure the volume of this area to pick up
subtle changes that can occur earlier on in the disease

it is a potential test for detecting early changes and possibly
helping early diagnosis in the future
eg
an abnormal neuropsych test with normal labs and
an abnormal mri scan of that underneath surface of the brain
may be an accurate and cheaper way to diagnosis
alzheimers disease than using the spinal tap and the amyvid
beta amyloid pet scan

i get to get in that cylinder and with ear plugs listen to that whirling
noise that sounds like a freight train for a long time
then they put a red dot on my temple and do a special scan
where i have to keep my eyes open for 7 minutes
i cant help it i have to blink
this is where they are taking special views of that underneath part
of the brain
where they will measure the volume of this area

then the next test
the reason i cant have my morning west kolache
is called the glucose metabolism pet scan of the brain
i have to have a normal blood sugar for them to run the test
so i get a finger stick blood sugar
ouch those things always hurt more than an arm blood draw
if its ok then
they start an iv and infuse a radioactive labeled glucose that will go
to the brain and wherever the brain cells are using glucose
it will show up as reddened hot areas
if there are areas of alzheimers disease
where beta amyloid has accumulated tau protein destruction has occurred
plaques have formed and inflammation and oxidation has occurred then
the damaged brain cells and nerve cells cant utilize the glucose and
the scan will not show glucose uptake

here is an example of a normal brain on the left and a mild alzheimers
brain on the right
on the scan on the right see the areas on the sides where there is not
reddened areas
thats where there is alzheimers disease and none of the glucose
is being absorbed there

hope both my scans are normal
which very early in the disease process like mine they both may be normal

next thursday
the spinal tap for beta amyloid
followed by the beta amyloid pet scan of the brain the amyvid pet scan
then i get a break for a year

the organicgreen doctor

alzheimers symposium part 3

ALZHEIMERS SYMPOSIUM PART 3
i will present a talk on my story with possible alzheimers
at the alzheimers symposium at the mayborn center in temple texas
on tuesday april 30, 2013

here is the the link to register for the event

part 3
the alzheimers disease neuroimaging initiative

i was on the aricept (donepezil) for three months and was stable
so i was allowed back on the alzheimers disease 
neuroimaging initiative study in the early mild cognitive study group

this study called the adni study is the largest alzheimers study 
and the most important one that has been done so far
its a large multicenter study 
when the data and results are collected and processed the
information is available to researchers all over the world

hundreds of research articles have been published using 
this data

during this study we have multiple tests done
i am not able to see my results of the tests as this is a blind study

here is the list of the tests we have done

the neuropsychological test is done
although i dont get the official results i know when i take the 2+
hour evaluation where i am with my memory loss
i have not changed in the last two+ years

then we have blood work done thats similar to the blood work
i had done when i saw the neurologist

the next test is the blood biomarkers and genetic tests

the two blood biomarkers are beta amyloid and tau protein and
the other proteins that they are trying to use to develop a protein
profile from the blood to be able to predict whether someone
has or will get alzheimers disease
in a recent study the test may be 88% accurate
its not available yet
but in the future you will go to the doctor and get this blood test
and find out whether you will get alzheimers disease

the genetic tests are testing for the genes for alzheimers
if you have the genes you get alzheimers
these are  rare and represent a very small percentage of the
alzheimers cases

then there is the apoe4 gene that is associated with an increased risk
of developing alzheimers disease
15% of the patients with alzheimers carry this gene
the apoe2 version tends to protect you
the apoe3 version tends to give you a mild case of alzheimers
the apoe4 version gives you the increased risk
if you have the apoe4/apoe4 double version you have a 15x increased
chance of developing alzheimers disease in your lifetime
if you are having symptoms and carry this double gene you have
a 60-90+% chance of developing alzheimers disease in your lifetime

i was able to have my genes done at a private lab
and i carry the double apoe4/apoe4 genotype
the sucky combination
so i have a 15x increase in my chances of having alzheimers
and with my symptoms i have a 60-90% chance that i have alzheimers

the next test we have done is the mri scan of the brain
of course they are looking for the same things that i mentioned before
to explain any symptoms
but they are also especially looking at the underneath surface of the brain at
the hippocampal area where alzheimers starts
they can detect subtle changes in the volume in this area early on in the
disease process

my mri scan as reported earlier was normal

the next tests we have done is a spinal tap analysis for beta amyloid and
tau  protein
the theory is that beta amyloid accumulates in the brain and causes a
sticky gooey substance that eventually forms plaques then later the tau protein
which forms the microtubules in the brain cells and nerve cells that carry
nutrition get damaged

the tau proteins as they are damaged become unwound
the body sticks phosphorus on the end of them
they form tangles and eventually inflammation and oxidation occurs
as the brain cells die

the tau proteins leak into the spinal fluid and can be measured

the beta amyloid protein is normally found in the spinal fluid
it goes to the brain
bathes the brain
is filtered through back to the spinal fluid
some people think the filtering mechanism gets messed up
some think there may be an overproduction of beta amyloid
whatever the cause it accumulate in the brain and the amount
in the spinal fluid decreases

so in a normal person like some of you
you have a normal amount of beta amyloid in your spinal fluid
and a low level of tau proteins there also

but in a person like my younger brother who is in the later
stages of alzheimers disease their beta amyloid level in the
spinal fluid will be low since its being deposited in the brain
and the tau protein levels will be high since the tau proteins are
being destroyed and leaked to the spinal fluid

so here is an graph where these result can be plotted out

in the upper left portion of the graph someone like you who are normal
with a normal amount of beta amyloid and a low level of tau protein
will plot out in the area not consistant with alzheimers disease

in the lower right portion of the graph someone like my younger
brother with alzheimers disease with a low level of beta amyloid
(its being left in the brain) and a high level of tau protein will
plot out in the area consistent with alzheimers disease

i was able to send my spinal fluid to a private lab and see the
asterisk in the middle that is my results
in the indeterminate range
this is consistent with my early diagnosis

these results along with my positive apoe4 double genotype makes
my diagnosis of possible alzheimers disease more likely

the next test we have done is the glucose metabolism pet scan
of the brain

we are given a radioactively labeled glucose in an iv
wherever in the brain that there is glucose being used by the brain
it will show up as increased activity

in alzheimers disease as the cells are being damaged they cant
utilize glucose well

so a normal patient will have increase uptake throughout the brain
while an alzheimers patient will have areas where there is decreased
or no glucose uptake

some people think that alzhiemers disease is a form of type 3 diabetes
there is resistance to the insulin so that the glucose cant be easily taken
up by the brain cells

studies are being done to use nasal insulin
the insulin travels up the olfactory nerves to the underneath surface of the
brain where alzheimers starts and where memory is processed
the patients are being evaluated for
improvement in their memory after using the nasal insulin

here is an example of the glucose metabolism pet scan
the one on the left is on a normal patient
you can see there is diffuse uptake ie red areas throughout the brain

the scan on the right shows a mild alzheimers patient
you can see on the sides of the brain there is no uptake
of glucose ie no red areas

my glucose metabolism test is normal
which is consistent with my early diagnosis

then the last test we have done is the
beta amyloid pet scan of the brain
amyvid is the only commercially available fda approved one

i have had two of these done with the study

in this study an iv material is given that will bind to beta amyloid
in the brain and will show up as high lighted areas

the amyvid pet scan is now commercially available in the dallas houston
san antonio areas
its expensive
it cost $3000-$6000
its not covered by health insurance or medicare or medicaid
there are $500 vouchers available at some sites

here is an example
the top scan is of an elderly control person who does not have
alzheimers disease
you can see that there is no red areas so no beta amyloid is  present

the bottom scan is of an alzheimers patient
see the red areas diffusely in the brain
that is beta amyloid
the hallmark sign of alzheimers disease

i plan on having one done at the austin radiological association in
austin texas next month

i expect mine to be positive

so now we have new tests available to possibly diagnose alzheimers disease
most of these are or will be commercially available some time in the future

next friday april 26
i will blog on
part 4
the alzheimers graph and what can be done

the organicgreen doctor

state of the union

STATE OF THE UNION



click here for the full alzheimers progress report
or
click on the headings below

genetics
if for example you want to know more about the genetics
of this terrible disease
i did and im sorry i read and saw those pictures of someone
who has the apoe 4 double gene like i have
if you look at the brain pictures my apoe 4 genotype
has all that blue crap on it
which suggests if i have a amyvid pet scan which
scans for beta amyloid that it might be positive in me now

ill soon know about that when i have my amyvid scan done

detection
its what ive written about a lot before
family observation and patient observation and physician observation
neuropsychological testing
the new stuff
genetics as above
beta amyloid pet scans
fdg glucose pet scans for decrease glucose uptake by the brain
mri for volume loss in the hippocampal area-where alzheimers starts
spinal fluid analysis for beta amyloid and tau protein

(note tau protein is what is looked at those ex nfl players with
brain damage from concussions-they have abnormal levels and have
positive tau pet scans)

put all these tests together and the accuracy of the diagnosis
is fairly high

ive had all of them done
the only one i dont have results of is the amyloid pet scan
but i will have it done outside of the study im in

testing therapies
there are several clinical trials going on testing therapies
one that has promise
is the ivig intravenous immunoglobulinstudy where alzheimers
patients are given iv immunoglobulin
in one subgroup of patients given this there was no progression
of alzheimers in three years while on this stuff
if youve had a love one with this disease you know it can go
fast in 3 years
this was a significant observation
the answer in in that bottle of iv immunoglobulin

developing new treatments
new therapies on reducing beta amyloid tau protein and
neurogenesis (new nerve development) are being tested

caregiving
caregivers sometimes get lost in all the stuff we read on
alzheimers

risk factors
ive written about this a lot over the last two years
some you are stuck with like genetics
but many are under your control
weight blood pressure cholesterol exercise sleep stress reduction
smoking excessive alcohol intake etc

biology of this disease
so whats happening in the brain of someone with alzheimers
this tells whats going on and what research is being done to
find out more

the largest study is the alzheimers disease neuroimaging initiative
adni
its is the one that im in and is the most important and largest one
done on alzheimers disease
a lot of the information in this article comes from this study


so if you have a family member or you think you may have a
problem or you just want to know more
go to the link above and read the full report

remember you will be affected by this disease in some way 
if you have not already 

the organicgreen doctor

neurology appointment

Walk to End Alzheimers
click here to donate or join 
the organicgreendoctor.com team

click here to find your local walk 

NEUROLOGY APPOINTMENT
today i am going back for my almost 2 year follow up
since i was diagnosed with mild cognitive impairment 
amnestic type that stage right before full blown alzheimers
disease takes off

today i went back and read some of my blogs about that
time period
here are the links to those blogs

last day thanks
the dreaded doctor visit
the neurology visit

since that time i have retired and am on medical disability 
for my diagnosis because of the risk of making a medical
error because of my short term memory loss

i know from testing that i carry the apoe 4 genotype which makes
these symptoms likely to be from alzheimers disease
i also have an indeterminate testing results for tau protein 
and beta amyloid in the spinal fluid
(those are the two biomakers that are abnormal in this 
alzheimers disease thing)
i have a normal mri normal glucose metabolism pet scan 
normal screening labs 
and a consistently abnormal neuropsychological exam
ive had eight of these since the beginning of all of this 
and one was an eight hour one 
(thats the one that convinced the disability insurance to 
pay on my claim)

i have a strong family history of alzheimers disease
my mother died in the final stages of the disease
my father may have had the disease 
my younger brother now has the disease and is in 
a long term care facility

i am on aricept (donepezil) for the possible alzheimers disease
its really the only thing that helps
but it does not affect the progress of the disease
just the symptoms 
maybe
its all there is for now

i am staying active mentally and physically 
i dont let this drag me down 
at least im alive and healthy and am doing a lot of things
that i am enjoying
except of course im not practicing medicine which is what 
i enjoyed the most 

there is a test that may give me the definitive answer
its the beta amyloid pet scan
ive had one already and will have another next year with the 
study that im in 
the (adni) alzheimers disease neuroimaging initiative

but they dont give me the results
it would be the piece of the puzzle that im missing

the test is now available commercially in some areas
the amyvid pet scan
they inject a radioactive substance that attaches itself to 
any anyloid deposited in the brain 
if amyloid is present it will show up as red highlighted areas

if i have no amyloid present then there is a good chance that 
my symptoms are not from alzheimers
not definite but as definite as you can be

if amyloid is present that doesnt mean you have alzheimers but
it implies that you might

i want the test to add to what i already know

now we just need a treatment to stop or slow this disease down
if my test is completely normal i might have a chance if this 
disease shows up later for that treatment that is coming

otherwise my generation has missed out on the cure or treatment

but at least i will know 
i want to know

its like having metastatic cancer
theres no treatment 
but i want to know if its metastasizing
so i can speed up my planning for the rest of my life

i want to know

the organicgreen doctor 

adni2

ADNI 2
adni 2 stands for
alzheimers disease neuroimaging inititative phase 2
its a mulicenter study on alzheimers
mainly funded by the stimulus package from 3-4 years ago
its the 2nd phase of this study
it will last for 5 years but if funding is present will be continued

it is considered the most important study on alzheimers that
has ever been done
important research information is being written on results of
this study almost on a weekly basis

in this study there are 4 categories of study subjects

-normal controls-i tried to enter as a normal subject but it
was found i had some short term memory deficits so i was
placed in the next category

-early mild cognitive impairment-these subjects are real early
in the process
many like me have very subtle symptoms not
noticed by others
many are still working their jobs
none are pilots or doctors or air traffic controllers who are still
working though

although real early many of us are already on aricept (donepezil)
which can slow the symptoms of alzheimers but will not stop the
progress of the disease
some times starting the meds now at this stage will delay the onset
of the disease sometimes as much as 5 years

-mild cognitive impairment-these subjects have less subtle findings
some which are obvious to friends and relatives

-alzheimers disease-these patients have all the signs and symptoms
of alzheimers

if the new medicine crenezumab thats being tried on the large family who
carry the early onset alzheimers gene in columbia works then that medicine
could be started
one day on normal subjects who will get the disease or
those of us in the early mild cognitive impairment group

the disease would be stopped or slowed down significantly
we are a few years away though from knowing if that will work
sadly for me since i  carry the apoe 4 genotype double gene
these meds may not work as well on me

today the tests i will have are
a general interview with my wife by the research coordinator to make sure
i am not having any new problems

a large number of vials of blood sent for muliple screening labs like
thyroid liver function test cbc etc and tests for proteins in the blood
that have been associated with alzheimers disease

eventually these blood tests will be available to everyone so that you
can be screened to see if you have a chance of getting alzheimers
it may be 90+% accurate

then next i have the test i dread the most the
2+ hour neuropsychological exam
the torture test
its frustrating because i know that i will have problems with parts of the
tests and cant do anything about it

then i have a mri of the brain
its looking for brain shrinkage and for subtle changes in the size of
the hippocampal area of the brain-the area where all this crap
starts

then i get a one year reprieve and go to annual visits
next year i will have all these tests done plus  a spinal test for
amyloid and tau protein  a fdg glucose metabolism pet scan and
a amyloid pet scan (thats like the new amyvid test thats now available)

is it worth doing this
yes it is even though i dont ever get the results
this research study the adni 2 study may help me one day but
will definitely help my kids or your kids or our grandkids
so
its worth it

the organicgreen doctor

mothers day, post abbie, ad classifications

MOTHERS DAY
on sunday i will pause and think about the two mothers
that have been important in my life

this is my mother
she would be 90 years old
she raised 8 children
the wife of a baptist minister
she was loved by all of her kids and all that knew her
she was a nurse and loved her profession

she was devastated by alzheimers disease in the last stages
of her life but
we remember her today during the best times

the other person
is my wife she

shes a good mother and a good wife and
a good sport for allowing me to pick on her
in this blog

shes a special person
will be thinking of her on mothers day
love you

POST ABBIE
what response to the blog on abbie
it is a special story
pass it on to those who would benefit from reading it
when you think you cant do something in life just think of abbie
you can do it
she did and does

AD CLASSIFICATIONS
there are three new levels in the new diagnostic classification
for alzheimers disease

pre clinical azheimers disease-you and no one else notices anything

mild cognitive impairment due to alzheimers disease-you and others notice changes

dementia due to alzheimers disease-those changes are more obvious

the preclinical phase can last for several years before symptoms start

the mild cognitive impairment starts subtly then advances to more
obvious symptoms after the process has been smouldering in your brain
for all those years

dementia due to alzheimers disease occurs when those processes start
damaging the brain and start snowballing in their effects
its the downhill roll that occurs with alzheimers disease


preclinical

the red line the 1st line
beta amyloid starts to form and accumulates in the brain

if my younger brother had  tests in his mid to late forties on his spinal
fluid
they would have found decreased levels of beta amyloid
and on a beta amyloid pet scan they may have found some accumulation of
beta amyloid in his brain

my beta amyloid in the spinal fluid is reduced
i dont know my results of the research beta amyloid pet scan but plan
eventually to have the amyvid pet scan for beta amyloid

the orangey line the 2nd line
the synapses those nerve connections in the brain start to get damaged
if you measure glucose metabolism in the brain at this stage you may start
to see some loss of glucose uptake on a fdg glucose metabolism pet scan

at the beginning of this he would still be working without noticing anything
and
later as it progresses up the red and orangey line he will began to notice
some subtle things that others wont notice

this is where i enter the picture with the very early noticing of things
my fdg metalbolism test is normal

the green line the 3rd line
the damage is done to the nerve cell
things unravel in the cell and release a substance called tau
which can be measured in the spinal fluid

as the green line progresses upwards the symptoms he notices become
more obvious to him but probably not to others
the beta amyloid would be increasing in his brain and decreasing in the
spinal fluid
his tau protein levels would be increasing in the spinal fluid
he was in the middle of his second career as a policeman

i entered above and this is where i am now
my tau protein is increased and is in the borderline range

mci

the blue line the 4th line
the damage is occurring and on a mri there starts with subtle
changes in volume in the brain in the area of the hippocampus
that controls short term memory

at this stage the symptoms are becoming obvious to my brother and to
those around him
he actually sought medical help but was mostly ignored

i am not at this stage yet but am just where the purple line the 5th line
is beginning

the purple line the 5th line
this is where things start to take off
cognition begins to show up as worsening

the black line the 6th line
this is clinical functioning
this is how well your are functioning in the real world

as this line takes off and crosses the 2nd dotted line is where my
younger brother was officially diagnosed
short term memory was a problem
getting lost driving was a problem
at this point spinal fluid would show high tau protein and
low beta amyloid
fdg glucose metabolism pet scan would show progession of the decreased
uptake of glucose by the brain
a beta amyloid pet scan (like the amyvid) would show more involvement
of the brain with the beta amyloid plaques
a mri would show some brain shrinkage and changes in the hippocampus

he would have to quit working at this point
their life just changed significantly

after this point the lines all continue to increase and things just
get worse

where exactly am i
im at the first dotted line and if i follow my younger brothers path
i am 5-10 years behind him
hope its the later number

get tested if you have symptoms

the oganicgreen doctor

bracelet, amyvid, wtea, tour

BRACELET

lance has his yellow one
susan has her pink one
i wear my purple one
its the alzheimers awareness bracelet
i wear it in memory of my mother my father and my younger brother
and i guess maybe myself
here is the link to order a 5 pack of them

AMYVID

here is the alzheimers associations statement on the new fda approval
of the florbetapir pet scan amyvid by eli lilly

i wrote a blog on this recently
their statement i totally agree with
its a beginning for diagnostic tests that may help define the
cause of a persons dementia

for me
i have short term memory loss showed on multiple neuropsych exams
i had a normal evaluation two years before they became abnormal
i have normal labs looking for other causes
i have had 3 normal mris
i have had one normal glucose metabolism pet scan
i have a strong family history of alzheimers-mother father brother and
distant relatives
i carry the apoe 4 double allele gene thats associated with an increased
chance of developing alzheimers disease
i have a borderline spinal fluid analysis for tau protein and beta amyloid

i have had a beta amyloid pet scan like the amyvid last year and will have
one next year but i cant get those results as they are part of the
alzheimers disease neuroimaging initiative adni-2

if i had the amyvid beta amyloid pet scan done and it was completely
negative them there would be some reassurance that what i have
is not due to alzheimers
if the scan is positive for beta amyloid plaques then it would be more
information added to the other that says that i probably have
alzheimers disease

so will i have the test
yes
i plan on doing it as i want to know as much as i can about whats
going on with me so ill know where im at

not everyone will benefit as well as i will to have this test done
estimated cost $6600 non covered by insurance

WTEA

the walk to end alzheimers is the major fundraiser for the
alzheimers association
you can go to the alzheimers website to find your local walk
or
donate and sign up on my team the organicgreendoctor.com

TOUR

the hill country chicken tour is tomorrow 1000 am to 400 pm
here is the link to their website www.hillcountrychickencooptour.blogspot.com

on saturday go to the cedar park farms to market at lakeline mall
to pick up your map to see the selected coops

the organicgreendoctor.com

rip, rosemary, update, whew

RIP
rip leslie cochran
the iconic keep austin weird guy
there will never be another one
we have pictures of him in his thong and high heels
heck he even got 30% of the vote for mayor once
wouldnt that have been fun if he had won
talk about keeping austin weird
it would have been downhill after that

do rip leslie
you gave us all memories
helped us forget for a few minutes what else was
happening in the world
well all miss you
well try to keep austin weird in your memory

(for those who dont know who leslie was here is
an article from the austin american statesman)

ROSEMARY

this is about the plant and not some person
a researcher took people and put them in a room with the
scent of rosemary in the room
the chemical is called 1 8 cineole that makes that distinctive odor

those who were in the room with the rosemary did better on
math quizzes than those who did the quizzes in a room without
the rosemary chemical

in one test they did those subtract seven tests
100-7=93-7=85
oops didnt smell my rosemary this am

maybe using rosemary might help someone with
mild cognitive impairment or alzheimers disease

think i reach over and grab a rosemary branch as i walk out
my door each morning
and
maybe ill put a sprig in my pocket when i go back for my
annual followup for the adni study next month in dallas

UPDATE
was asked a lot recently how im doing so heres an update

i still notice some subtle changes on memory that are not
noticeable to others even my wife she

i function normally doing all the things i like to do and some i
dont like to do like dishes washing etc

i am still on aricept (donepezil) and have noticed fewer of the
side effects as i use to-no nausea, less leg cramps, less restlessness
but still have some problems with sleep which i compensate by
doing a short noon nap (just try to call me after lunch)

hopefully this is not the calm before the storm or
hopefully im not gettting a placebo pill that the manufacturer
is screwing up on

i keep up with alzheimers research and whats happening with
alzheimers and try to write about some of it here in this blog

my annual visit is next month where i will do a 1 year follow up on
the alzheimers disease nuclear imaging initiative
adni
it was started about 6 months after i was diagnosed
so i have a baseline that was done 18 months ago

i will have a neuropsychological exam, blood work by the gallons
a neurological evaluation and a mri scan

its another year before i get a spinal tap again
(know my wife she is looking forward to that one since
she fainted last time-how could she do that when she
was way down the hall and didnt ever see or hear
anything-guess she just cares a lot)

also in a year i will get the beta amyloid pet scan and the
glucose metabolism pet scan done
well something to look forward to there

what i realize is clichéc but
you have to seize the moment
each day i do what i like to do (except for the dishes) and try to enjoy the day

maybe thats what everyone should be doing huh

WHEW
well i know i told everyone dont get your plants yet and
stick them in the ground cause the cold weather will come
back and get your plants
dont succumb to the good weather fever

i went to my favorite organic nursery to get some good garden
soil for a project here and for the square foot garden im doing for
the habitat home owner

oh my goodness omg those tomato plants were so beautiful
just run your hands across those plants and then smell your hands
man i could do calculus in my head after doing that
didnt need no rosemary for this

those peppers egg plants herbs
sorry i just couldnt help myself
i bought all the plants i needed for my garden then went home
it was so nice and warm then
i said to myself
dont do it dont do it
remember your potatoes just got nipped by the frost this week
so
i didnt plant them in the ground but instead put them in my little
greenhouse with my heater and decided to wait

am glad i did or they would look like my taters do now
all black and shrivelled up (dont worry theyll come back out)

guess i learned my lesson after the last 10 years of planting my
maters too early
maybe ill plant them next weekend or the next

the organicgreen doctor